It's no secret that I'm a huge fan of Dissection here at Terrorizer and since Roadburn 2008, The Devil's Blood, have also become one of my favourite bands. The two are interlinked, in my mind, as I was drawn into the Dutch band at Roadburn through the similarities between their pre-show ritual and that of Dissection's. I had been told I would like them (being a fan of Jex Thoth) so went to watch their show, and was wide-eyed as the candles were lit and the joss sticks burnt, it was a ceremony I recognised too well.
Last year, when their album 'The Time Of No Time Evermore' was about to come out in the UK last September (it's just come out in America!!) I jumped at the chance to interview guitarist SL about his spirituality. The interview, which was published in issue #188, has never been published in whole until now. What started as a normal band interview became a conversation where I ended up asking more questions of myself than the band. Re-reading this transcript made me even more excited to see them at Armageddon Festival in London on June 5, and of course Hellfest.

Your album 'The Time Of No Time Evermore' is now finished, you must feel very relieved?
SL: “Yes, I do, because the album had a very intense creation process. It was a bit stressful for a moment there, and just to be able to sit down and listen to it and say, 'It's done'. I'm feeling quite good about it. I'm quite relieved.”

The first time I saw you was at Roadburn 2008 and I was totally blown away, then you returned in 2009 as a last minute booking, but that we heard that show meant you had to have a break from recording as your vocalist F damaged her voice? What happened?
SL: “Yes, we did, we had to cancel a show and we also had to cancel a few recording days because we were actually in the middle of recording the album at that point, which, in retrospect, it might not have been a good idea to break the studio routine to play a concert, but of course, when Walter from Roadburn asks you, you comply, because he's a really good friend of ours and I've known him for a really long time, and he has helped us out in spreading the word, so of course we wanted to do it. And I think we got away with it alright. I don't think that it was one of our greatest concerts, but I do think that we were alright, and of course that we had to cancel that show was a let-down, but in the end it all worked out for the best I think.”

When you played in 2008 few people knew who you were, but the atmosphere in that room after you finished playing was one of shock and adulation, those few must have spread the word high and wide, I know I did, as the room at your 2009 performance was packed – did that make you nervous? There was a lot of expectation surrounding your set.
SL: “I was actually supposed to feel that way, but what really happened was that we were a bit unprepared and I was too much in studio mode, and I wasn't really able to really enjoy the moment as much as I would have liked to, but I do think that, for the band itself, it was a great moment because indeed we had the chance to show what progress we'd made in a year with a new line-up and a lot of people really got into it, and I'm very happy for that, but on a personal level i was a bit disappointed.”

Before you play the band performs a ritual to prepare yourselves for the upcoming ceremony, is this important?
SL: “Most important. It's the most important thing; not so much the way it looks, but how it feels. I really think that we are making music that is on a level that is some kind of power, that I would call the power of Satan, and that is the most important aspect of our music – to be able to be a spiritual conduit for the sinister urges, and that is one of the reasons that for me personally that the Roadburn show wasn't a good one, because I wasn't able to channel these emotions and felt blocked out in a way, and in a perfect situation, when we do have this pure spiritual release, then it's absolutely more important than the music, in all these things the spiritual aspect is there to enhance the emotions that we're trying to establish.”

Is this an ethos that is shared with all members of The Devil's Blood?
SL: “Of course it is, these are the things that are being transposed through me, so I am the one who is responsible for the way it sounds and the way it feels and the way it's brought, but the people in my band are also very like-minded when it comes to these things. Everybody looks at these things in a totally different manner, and there is no dogma involved, and there is no doctrine involved, even, but this energy, which is translated comes from all band members, I am pretty sure of that.”

Do they study the same strain of gnosticism that you do? Is that vital to you that they follow the same beliefs?
SL: “I really couldn't tell you because we as individuals are not important, and I do expect a certain amount of involvement from everyone, but it's hard for me to say what anyone does in their free time. A few works are most likely important for all of us, but I must say that for me it is a singular vision, and I don't really feel the need to be aware of what most of them are doing in their free time, because for me, the only moment that matters is the moment of The Devil's Blood.”

You use pseudonyms on stage, do not allow promo photographs and on stage cover yourselves with blood to the point you are unrecognisable – why do you chose to separate yourself from your earthly form?
SL: “Because we as individuals are totally unimportant and uninteresting and irrelevant to what it is we are bringing. We try to create as much distance between us as people and us as The Devil's Blood so The Devil's Blood is always that which matters, and the people behind it are always that which does not matter.”

It's been said that you took your name from the Watain song 'The Devil's Blood' and have worked closely with E from that band with the art surrounding the band. There are also similarities in your spirituality to that of Watain and Dissection. Are you aligned with the Temple Of The Black Light?
SL: “I would have to stress that what Jon [Nödtveidt] believed and what I believe is vastly different. I am not a member of the Temple Of The Black Light. I am not a member of the Misanthropic Luciferian Order. I am not a member of any order. I wouldn't want people to think this. I think it's very immaterial to what we are doing. A lot of aspects that are being taught by the Temple Of The Black Light and its various writings and books, like the one that is now coming out, 'The Pan Paradox', they really do have a great bearing on the lyrics that I write, and they do have a lot to do with the spiritual aspects, but I really would like to stress that I am in no way tied to these individuals or to these orders, simply because I feel in my case it wouldn't be a constructive thing to tie myself to anything, because I want the lawlessness and separateness of my spirit to be absolute, to be able to look to all different spiritual philosophies and to take out of them what is interesting for me. This is of course what a lot of occult groups do anyway, but I prefer to have my freedom in this aspect, although I do have a great respect for these people.”

But you did take your name from Watain? Despite playing an almost opposite style of music?
SL: “Yeah, it's taken from that song, and 'Drink The Devil's Blood' by Deathspell Omega. The music is, as you said, so completely different from ours, although I do think that the atmosphere is actually quite comparable. These two lyrics really made a big impression on me for different reasons, and they got me thinking on what it is I wanted to say with my music and what it is I waned to say with my lyrics, or even what it was that I thought was being said through me, and it then became the most logical thing to use The Devil's Blood as a band name, and also as a tribute to Watain, a band that I think is one of the most sincere, honestly antisocial bands on this planet and I really admire them for the way they are, and the way they make music, and how they present themselves. Erik contacted us some time after the first 7" was released. He gave us a line saying, 'I love the music, I love the lyrics, I'm interested in doing some work together ', which he was thinking more in the artwork sense, and after some initial talks and some correspondence, I asked him to write lyrics for a song I had. The music for it was almost totally finished and I was really happy with it, though I could not find the right words, they were not given to me, to emphasise the feeling of the song. So I gave it to him, and he wrote a poem that I felt was exactly spot-on, really captivated my personal emotions, then we did a little rewrite of the song, he gave me some ideas about the way it might need to go. We took it again, and that became 'The Omen Beckons'. While it's always hard to name favourites, it's clearly one of the songs that has the most emotional power to it.”

When he emailed you were you surprised or shocked? It's always wild to get emails out of blue from artists you respect?
SL: “It's been a shock all around, basically! Apart from, of course, the accolades that we've been receiving from people in the black metal scene, we've also been receiving people like Lief Edling of Candlemass coming up to me after shows telling me they like the music, and also Set from Dissection, who is also a member of Watain, also gave us this thumbs up you know. Malcolm Dome even, one of England's most notorious metal journalists, took time out to write us a note. It's really strange; for example, Keith of Destroyer 666 lived in my town for awhile, and he only found out about us the week he was moving out, we just met for the first time, and he was like 'I can't believe I'm leaving this fucking city now that I know this band is here!' I've made a lot of friends and also a lot of kindred spirits that I've found, and that's always a good feeling, but everything we do is so individualistic, it's not something that really confuses us or makes us approach anything in a different way, it's just very nice to hear.”

You're in demand constantly for shows and interviews, but you claim to be someone who wishes to remain out of the spotlight. How can you reconcile your newfound 'fame' with your own misanthropy?
SL: “That's a very good question. I don't. It's just something where you have to say I make a divide in my soul, and I show them what I want them to see, and I keep a large part of it hidden forever inside myself. At some point, you're tempted to do what is best for me, which is to not communicate and on the other side I am obliged in the name of Satan to do what is best for the word – to spread this message that we have to every corner of the earth. Erik said to me jokingly, 'you have the ability to take Satan to the cover of Rolling Stone magazine, so you'd better fucking do it!' Of course it's an exaggeration, but the mere fact that I've been talking to magazines like Metal Hammer, Terrorizer, Rock Hard proves that we are doing something that needs to be among the people, in their souls, amongst the searchers. It's kind of a responsibility that I now have, and of course I feel like totally uninterested in this side of the coin, but I think it just comes with the territory.”

We just talked about how you have taken your name and some of your ethos from the black metal scene, but not your musicial influence, tell me a bit more about where your music springs from?
SL: “Musically, we have a lot more influences, this is a totally different discussion. What I listen to during the course of a day can vary from The Beatles to The Pretty Things to early Cathedral to Watain to Dissection to Deathspell Omega to Hellhammer to Sarcofago to Mahler to Beethoven and all the way over again to '60s psychedelic and '70s hard rock. All these things have in some way influenced me, and when I pick up an instrument to channel music, it comes out like The Devil's Blood. It's not a choice. It could have been black metal as well, if that was the way universe is set, but it isn't. This is the way it happens.”

Do you feel then that you are channelling the music from a higher plain?
SL: “I think I'm channelling the inspiration, yes.”

In that respect could you wash your hands of the responsibility, claiming 'it's not me playing this music!'?
SL: “Well, yeah, that's one way of looking at it – like I am a little ship on a vast ocean and I am constantly being beat from left to right and from front to back, and there also periods of calm, where there is no breeze, and I become this little man who is waiting for this one wind of inspiration to come to him, and these both can happen within the space of a few months. For example, when we entered the studio, there came moments of intense lack of inspiration, and I was actually worried for a moment that I would not be able to be good conduit any more, and now it's opened up again a bit, and it's like a flow. But to say it's not me, it's something else – of course it goes through a very big filter, because I'm the one who understands music in this way, and so the inspiration comes through me and becomes this.”

Some have claimed that The Devil's Blood is not metal, not extreme and yes here you are, being interviewed by an extreme metal magazine, what would you say to people who feel you do not belong in Terrorizer?
SL: “That's an interesting point you make, because see, you have music and you have extremism, and these two are rarely ever combined. Maybe we don't make extreme music in the sense in the way that a band like Behemoth or Agoraphobic Nosebleed, but we do have some quite extreme things to tell, extreme even in the sense of escaping the normal conscious morality that involves the word extreme. For that reason I think it's really fitting that we be in a magazine like Terrorizer, though on the other hand I really see the inhibition to say no, it doesn't fit, and this is what we've been getting all across the board. I even remember this one review where the writer started off by saying nothing but 'someone should tell these guys that the '70s are over, and that you don't produce an album like this any more, but for some reason I can't stop listening to it. So what's wrong with me?'. Another thing is that obviously if you just look at it from a musical standpoint, how many death metal albums can one person listen to before he gets stone fucking bored? There is a lot of good music out there, I'm sure of it, but I can't imagine anyone listening to only one musical genre for more that just a few days. Even if I'm in my most hateful moods, I can play a day's worth of Teitanblood and Urfaust and Beherit and old Immortal and then there comes the moment when I say, that was fucking great and everything is covered in blood because of my fist pounding into the wall, let's play some Fleetwood Mac. I don't see a problem with that, but I can imagine the discussion of course, and I think it's a good thing that these discussions are being held now. You need a palate, you need contrast.”

There are a few bands of a similar vein that have graced the pages of Terrorizer, that some might say do not belong there, like Blood Ceremony, Jex Thoth or Rose Kemp – are you aware of these artists?
SL: “I'm personally not a big fan of Rose, but our drummer is a really big fan; he's actually the one who got Walter to book her on Roadburn [in 2009], so there's a weird connection there. But in all honesty, I've listened to The Blood Ceremony album once or twice, and the Jex Thoth as well, and obviously the Rose Kemp, and I think it's great what people are doing and it's something they should be doing, but I don't see it as any kind of 'scene' or movement, and I really hope that won't happen. I really would hate us to be championed as the forebears, because it would only be because of the fact that we have a female singer, and I really believe that that is the least important aspect of The Devil's Blood. Her voice is what's important, not the fact that she's got a vagina.”

Are you a fan of female fronted rock? For example you mentioned Fleetwood Mac, but I also hear a lot of Melanie or Buffy Sainte-Marie in your music.
SL: “If I can look at my entire record collection and find one big gap there it's female singers, because I don't like a lot of female singers. I like Grace Slick and you mentioned Melanie, who is a very, very good singer as well, but apart from them, especially in rock 'n' roll music now, not really. When F started singing for us, it just clicked – she has the perfect kind of voice for the perfect kind of music. It's not something that we thought about, it's just something that I don't think is at all interesting, like 'what kind of music do you make?' 'Oh, we make 'female-fronted rock music,' or something like that. I could care less about that. The message is much more important.”

Chaos gnosticism seems to be a very female-dominated spiritualism, it's not something I'm very knowledgeable in but from the teachings I have read it comes across as having a strong female core (Mother Lilith) – am I correct? Is that why having a female vocalist is important, in some way?
SL: “It has to deal with the separation of the right and the left-hand side. It's very interesting, in fact, I had this journalist ask me a question last Saturday and he said that he thought our music and our lyrics were very male-oriented, and I was totally flabbergasted by this. I think they're not, I think they're very feminine in a lot of ways, and I think having those words channelled again – they go through me, and then they go through her – it's a very powerful feminine power there, but its femininity that really transcends male or female. It's beyond that in a lot of aspects. When it comes to gnosticism and the occult and the powers of chaos, which Lilith and Kali in a certain aspect represent, their femininity is not something that's being based upon the possession of a vagina or uterus, it goes beyond this. I would like to stress that because of us having a female singer that it works, it goes beyond that.”

F is a very strong presence on stage though, she is centre stage, wearing a red dress, performing the ritual, almost like a high priestess, while her acolytes are behind her dressed in black, almost inconsequential to the ritual.
SL: “She needs to be the vocal point. I think in every band, the singer or the one who is really expressing the energy, needs to be the focal point. That's why we gave her a - it's not red, it's purple by the way – dress. It's important that it's purple because that's the colour that is usually worn by the high priest or high priestess and we as the acolytes wear all black because we are unimportant in this respect. It's not that we put her as a person in the limelight, it's her being more like a conduit.”

Is the idea of a ritual important to you?
SL: “The entire concert is the ritual. it may not be a ritual in the sense of what most people might suspect in a satanic ritual, with the sacrifice and the burning of candles or incense and myrrh, it's a ritual almost in the way that a voodoo ritual is, just experiencing the rhythm, the power and the sonic excess of the music. People should allow themselves to be carried off, to become one with what we are bringing. That is the ritual. In the beginning we tried for more of a wider approach, but this turned out to be mostly distracting, so we've kept it mostly simplistic, to allow people to experience the concert as one great big ritual, and not as a rock 'n' roll presentation.”

Your artwork is very unique, extremely charged – who did that for you?
SL: “The artwork was all done by a good friend of ours from Belgiam, who also plays in a Belgian metal band called Dead Inside. He is adept in what you would describe as Sigil Magic, and he made for us these symbols, put them chock full of information, mostly borrowing from the music, the lyrics, and his own personality because that's unavoidable. I don't think it's a good idea to start explaining every little thing that is in there, otherwise I'd take away the possibility of people finding things out for themselves, which is of course what a mandala is for – a way of self-reflection through observation as something you can look at and study and use as a labyrinth for your own personal search. This is also the way that one makes it, in the reverse order. Any Sigil is made by the power of your mind, through the pen on the paper. This is the way it was made and I think in the reverse way is how it should be experienced.”

Were you involved in the art, sending things back and forth until it was perfect for what you wanted to communicate, or did you trust his vision?
SL: “I always think it is extremely important to give the artist total freedom to create what he wants to create. I am the musician and in this case he was the artist, and he took my music and words and experienced them then he expressed them in a new way. I think it came out absolutely perfectly, and this is why he's doing the art for the full-length album as well.”

Can you tell us what to expect from the new art?
SL: “I don't want to give too much away, since the album title is 'The Time of No Time Evermore', and symbols of timelessness, death, the 13th hour, oroboros will be present in the artwork. He has done a sickeningly good job I think.”

Since you're making me understand a little more deeply of your spiritual beliefs could you help me understand one of the darker elements, in that death is seen not as finality, but a positive thing. I personally found it difficult to see the death of Jon (from Dissection), for example, as anything but senseless and negative.
SL: “I don't believe that's a negative thing at all actually. I think that the aspects of negative and positive are very constrictive and therefore not as interesting as those of chained and free, and I think what Jon did was unchain himself forever and become free, and I do believe that he is now totally free but I think he attained his freedom by going to the extreme extent of his own personal search, and it could probably be a very dangerous thing for just anyone to take the steps that he did.”

When you're informing and putting forth such controversial beliefs do you not worry that some people might follow you blindly without taking the time and effort you have to become fully immersed in the deeper spiritualism of chaos gnosticism? You're putting yourself out there, as Erik said, you could be on the cover of Rolling Stone and somewhere down the line you might encourage people to follow what you follow but in a dangerous fashion.
SL: “This is a risk I gladly take, and I don't see it as a negative at all. I think for too long and too intensely this scene and these people have been living their lives by empty phrases and by words without action. My personal belief lies in an active belief, so I would rather have inspired the madman than to have entertained the person who will never ever act upon what he says he believes. I think it's my obligation to allow my words to be misinterpreted. I think it's my obligation also to allow for the possibility of the misinterpretation of my words to be the correct ones, because if you come to a level when truth or false, or good or bad, where they seem to start to lose meaning, when reality becomes thin, there's no such thing as a misinterpretation. and yes, these things are dangerous, we would see danger normally, and yes these things are probably threatening and frightening to people, but I would urge them to look inside that which is frightening, and to find what is actually beneath it. It could be liberty.”
“It's not about as much as being studied or calling yourself an adept, because I don't. I don't feel that I am very studied, because the more I read and the more I learn the old cliché applies – the more I know the more I find out I know absolutely nothing, that my mind is a completely empty shell that could be filled with much more than I could ever learn. But I have found a couple of truths in my life, at least in the way I choose to interpret them, and they may be false to other people, or contradictory, or paradoxical, or even outright lies, and they will certainly be seen as hypocritical and immoral and unsavoury, and that may even prove that they are not and they are.”

www.myspace.com/thedevilsblood